dogon sirius debunkeddogon sirius debunked
There are no stable orbits around the less massive Sirius B which exceed three years. Print versions available in Dutch, Russian, Japanese, and Korean. It is a type of fuel that can lead to what Clay Farris Naff cleverly calls the neuron bomb. In this post, Michael Shermer asks, Is there a moral standard that stands above all the worlds religions that is based on some transcendent source?. Young was a fervent believer in the Council of Nine, a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. McDaid, Liam. What about Sirius? A substantial bulk of The Sirius Mystery consists of comparative linguistic and mythological scholarship, pointing out resemblances among Dogon, Yoruba, Egyptian and Sumerian beliefs and symbols. They dont have telescopes or other Subscribe to eSkeptic: our free email newsletter and get great podcasts, videos, reviews and articles from Skeptic magazine, announcements, and more in your inbox once or twice a week. The good news is that two of the first five entries were from skeptical websites (CSICOP and Bob Carrolls Skeptics Dictionary). E. "Ancient Astronauts," in The Encyclopedia of the The star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. G. Stein (Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996), pp. Bullard, Thomas. Astronomers Carl Sagan and Ian Ridpath, for example, have suggested that the modern astronomical aspects of the complex Dogon mythology entered the lore only recently, probably shortly before the myths were written down in the 1930s. But other observers disagree. I published, showed the distances to be nowhere close, in error by tens of miles, at least ten percent -- hardly "immense accuracy. The second problem is that ancient writers seemed to use color for stars in a way different from the way that we do (they described Pollux, Arcturus, and Capella as red a modern observer would call them yellow-orange, orange, and yellow, respectively). In a response published in Fate magazine, he denied intending that: "I refer, entirely in passing, to the Greek word for siren and its similarity to the word for Sirius, drawing absolutely The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. Why would Europeans feel compelled that they needed to discuss astronomy with such a primitive tribe and why would this transfer of knowledge that only lasted 5 weeks have such an impact on the Dogan people that they would include it in their cultural practices? WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." It is also possible to conclude that such a star could in no way be responsible for the flurry of sightings from the 1920s, it would be too faint and too close to Sirius A to have ever been seen by visual observers.[17]. 1999. stars to the sun, the Alpha Centauri system. According to Sagan, western Africa has had many visitors from ch. If a European But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. But if the error is real, it reflects on the only kind of hard, checkable, testable evidence Temple has offered for his theories. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. And finally, even if Sirius B had been a visible red giant a few thousand years ago, how would the Dogon know that Sirius B was still there after it became a white dwarf? History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. Cuddle up with someone. The Dogon. You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. Sounds like you're grasping at straws. Skeptic Jason Colavito counts The Sirius Mystery among the body of works in a tradition of ancient astronaut ideas he believes were ultimately inspired by H. P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos.[13][14]. Dwarfs and Little Green Men". A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific Did Oberg? Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. He certainly did not have permission to use that statement as part of the promotion, I'11 just have to be even more careful hereafter.". As an example, Sagan believes that because the Dogon seem to have no knowledge of another planet beyond Saturn which has rings, their knowledge is therefore more likely to have come from European, and not extraterrestrial, sources.[11]. Based on Carrolls website (skepdic.com), the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. At the latitude of Egypt, over distances of several hundred kilometers, planetary curvature introduces distortions only on the order of fractions of kilometers, not the tens of kilometers worth of inaccuracies I found in Temple's claim. "Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel The Symbolism of the Tarot: The Minor Arcana, The Symbolism of the Tarot: The Major Arcana, My Reading with Kristine from Psychic Source Review, Get the best Psychic Reading Ever Best Psychics Ive Reviewed, The Cathars: the struggle for and of a new Church, The Strange Stone Discs of Baian-Kara-Ula, William Blake: What paintings of visions come. [7] Others, such as Marcel Griaule's daughter Genevive Calame-Griaule and an anthropologist, Luc de Heusch, came to criticize Van Beek's dismissal as "political" and riddled with "unchecked speculation", demonstrating a general ignorance of Dogon esoteric tradition. One of the problems the UFO crowd has is providing an answer to the question of where the aliens who visit us come from. Also it would take a very good set of lenses to see Sirius B, which has an apparent magnitude of 8.44 and a separation from Sirius A of 10 arcseconds (0.3% of a 1 angle) under the best conditions. (2004). The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. 2Q9-mV5F W4g?`Su#q6a]sdaGr*_70 ! ;`~RS)Hm@FGI.m3gcW|PF.(`VypT!]WM6'b//^FX[P\9:H37)DH,y|F(&Da]w o9-K?MR+z.R}7.ubqUIXVy~frF@". Even in the most optimistic reading of this tale, the Dogon know no more than we knew about the Solar System and nearby stars in the 1930s, which is about the time that Griaule and Deiterlen first interacted with them. 30-31. ), There were Giants in the earthin those days Genesis 6:1. from black Egyptians who had telescopes. The basic thesis is this: the Dogon (who live in the African nation of Mali, near the border with Burkina Faso) allegedly have long possessed arcane astronomical knowledge that should have been impossible for them to discover without modern telescopes. Astronomers classify Sirius as a "class A" star, hotter and younger than our sun, Its brightness is due largely to its proximity; it is barely eight light- years away from the earth. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. The "mystery" that is central to the book is how the Dogon allegedly acquired knowledge of Sirius B, the white dwarf companion star of Sirius A, invisible to the naked eye. I wonder. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. 139-167. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. One additional disturbing note: That distance has been computed based on a true geodetic oblate spheroid, but even assuming a flat surface would only have introduced an error of a few tenths of one percent at most (Temple obviously didn't know that, or he wouldn't have asserted that measurements even less accurate than that were proof that ancients took Earth's sphericity into account.). WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. According to Griaule and Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. The immunity of pseudoscientists to criticism is well known to skeptics, yet I was curious. However, doubts have been raised about the reliability of Griaule and Dieterlen's work on which The Sirius Mystery is based,[4][5] and alternative explanations have been proposed. Temple claims that bas-reliefs of the Sumerian demigod Oannes, which depict a "fish man," prove Nommo, whom the author identifies as the ancestor of the Dogon Nommo myths, was an amphibious extraterrestrial. This of course would destroy the modern influence explanation totally. Sagan suggests, however, that that civilization was Since Sirius B is a very dense white dwarf star about the size of Earth, it can only be seen in dark skies with medium-sized telescopes. van Beek, Walter E. A. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. [6] The claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Mali was a former French colony (part of the Sudan), so some Dogon may have gone to French schools in the 1920s.7 Or Jesuit missionaries or merchants may have imparted the information to them.8, There may be an even simpler explanation. In this weeks eSkeptic, Liam McDaid examines these claims. (Copyright Lee Krystek 1998) In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. The Dogon have a Sirius figures prominently in the Dogon myths. The Nine became part of the UFO and New Age mythology and many claim to be in contact with them. double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*. Perhaps the source was Temple "Nowhere in his 295 page book does Temple offer one specific statement from the Dogon to substantiate his ancient astronauts claim." "their purpose in disguising their secrets was to see that the secrets could survive.". The Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. Griaule and Dieterlen describe a world renovation ceremony, associated As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. James, P., N. Thorpe, and I. J. Thorpe. Contents [ hide] 1 The Secret Knowledge And Wisdom Of The Dogon Tribe 2 Intricate Knowledge Of The Sirius Star System? [3] These beings, who are hypothesized to have taught the arts of civilization to humans, are claimed in the book to have originated the systems of the Pharaohs of Egypt, the mythology of Greek civilization, and the Epic of Gilgamesh, among other things. Some astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is impossible. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. 7 0 obj These same myths, Temple claims, identify a planet circling that star as the home of Nommo, an alien creature who founded the Dogon civilization. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. But that isn't the only parallel. Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. This is strange, because one would think that it would be a major discovery in anthropology. [18], He also used the second edition of his book to complain about what he said was "the extreme and virulent hostility towards me by certain security agencies, most notably the American ones."[19]. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. Mysteries (Ballantine Books, 1999). Although Temple fails to prove its antiquity, the evidence for the recent acquisition of the information is still entirely circumstantial. the Sirius "Mystery" by Ian Ridpath, Skeptical Inquirer, Fall Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. This proves that geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part of the Sirius lore.". Or, Griaule's account may reflect his own interests more than that of Modern astronomers have discovered the remains of the supernova Vela-X in a constellation which would have been visible in the low southern sky from Sumer. He says the references are there but recorded in riddles which he alone has been able to decipher. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Furthermore, there had been a terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. Except that this isnt the original Dogon drawing. they were not told by beings from the star Sirius.". Sagan further commented that he was surprised, given the freedom of viewpoint that Fish used, that her map didnt match the Hill map better!4. I disagree wit deeee72. [2][1] The book was first published by St. Martin's Press in 1976. Perhaps so -- it does seem like a trivial point, arguing over how different two meaningless geographical distances really are. York: Random House, 1995). Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). You guessed it -- Sirius! for some unknown reason from a planet orbiting Most important, no one, even within the circle The other five are still seen as red but from the time of Arab astronomers to the present day Sirius has been blue-white. WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. Encyclopedia Galactica,, Benest, D. and J. L. Duvent. -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? The two anthropologists who first studied the Dogon (Griaule and Deiterlen) conducted their research in the 1930s. In their original findings, Griaule and Deiterlen make no comment about the Dogon knowledge of Sirius B. Pseudoarchaeology book by Robert K. G. Temple, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Sirius_Mystery&oldid=1135262588, CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 23 January 2023, at 16:12. Tom Sever's "The Obsession with the Star Sirius," and editor Ron Oriti's "On Not Taking it Seriously." We need more reliable evidence -- especially theories that can be tested. If I were alone in picking on Temple's thesis, he might be able to argue a case for ad hominem persecution. This is a complicated issue, because several special interest groups each claim the Dogon for their own. Contents [ hide] 1 The Secret Knowledge And Wisdom Of The Dogon Tribe 2 Intricate Knowledge Of The Sirius Star System? Found in the constellation after which it is named, it is about 25,000 light years from the sun and 42,000 light years from the centre of the Milky Way. [12] According to Oberg, the Dogons' astronomical information resembled the knowledge and speculations of late 1920s Europe, suggesting that the Dogon were influenced by European visitors before their mythology was recorded in the 1930s. He made no secret of the fact that his intention was to redeem Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. "It does not!" The greatest source of error, however, seems to be in Temple's specified location of Behdet. earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part ofthe Sirius tore." The Dogon. Could Sirius B have been a red giant a few thousand years ago? theorizes that the myths may refer to a gigantic supernova. Review. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. Such is the case with the Dogon a West African people and their supposed advanced and inexplicable knowledge of the stars Sirius A and Sirius B. Sirius A is the brightest star in our sky. One problem with this idea is that Sirius B has been a white dwarf for at least tens of thousands of years. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. Temple, however, has stated in the reprint of The Sirius Mystery (1999) that he in no way supports what he refers to as "sinister cults" that have been inspired by his book. To quote James and Thorpe: As for Sirius B, only Griaules informants had ever heard of it. Was Griaule told by his informants what he wanted to believe; did he misinterpret the Dogon responses to his questions? The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . Beware of mood swings. Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." (And presumably, that the Egyptians then located their river deltas, eases, and river ports deliberately on geometric rather than purely geographical grounds, I'm tempted to ask?) sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Were aliens, lost technology or something else entirely involved? From the findings of Van Beek and the authors of Ancient Mysteries, it is clear that Griaule himself was responsible for the creation of a modern myth; one which, in retrospect, has created such an industry and near-religious belief that the scope and intensity of it can hardly be fathomed. It's almost certainly a hoax. answer is that they got this information from amphibious aliens from outer To penetrate this supposed disguise (which might not be a disguise at all, other classical scholars maintain), Temple resorts to ancient puns, to hidden meanings, to "garbled versions" which he must amend to fit the theory, to the exchange of consonants in innocent-looking words, to similar-sounding words from He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. in elliptical orbits of astronomical phenomena. Europeans too talked about the discovery of a third star in the Sirius system; later investigations, however, ruled out that possibility. good amount of discussion of Sirius in the scientific press in the '20s so E. "Ancient Astronauts," in, McDaid, Liam. So what is the alternative to the extraterrestrial hypothesis for the Dogon myths7 The Dogons could have learned of European Sirius lore in the 1920's from traders, explorers or missionaries, many of whom are avid amateur astronomers. (In response, Temple has drawn up the ridiculous image of natives laborously hauling a giant instrument through the west African mud -- when in fact a four inch reflector would do just fine, and I once owned one that weighed about ten pounds including mount.) James, Peter and Nick Thorpe. Also, in the 1980s and 1990s, anthropologist Walter van Beek could find no evidence that the Dogon possessed knowledge about Sirius B today.9 But more enlightening is the fact that Griaule studied astronomy in Paris and brought star maps with him to Mali. either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. How did the Dogon obtain this knowledge? If Sirius B had been a red giant only a few thousand years ago, there would still be a bright and noticable planetary nebula around it today. Unfortunately he neglects to mention other bas-reliefs which show "fish-deer" and "fish-lions" and which consequently suggest that the fish motif was symbolic, not descriptive. Nor does he establish a connection between the Dogon creator Nommo and the star Sirius. Try my free online Rune Readings! Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely Since Oberg cannot do so, we need not concern ourselves with criticisms of The Sirius Mystery." due to quantities of melanin (Welsing, F. C. 1987. Such words would have more persuasion behind them (to me they're merely an emotional appeal to sympathy) if Temple had ever admitted anywhere in print that he had found (or had been shown) any errors in his book or articles or public statements -- but if he has done so, I haven't become aware of them. by Liam McDaid. by Liam McDaid. One example: "If a Sirius-C is ever discovered and found to be a red dwarf, I will conclude that the Dogon information has been fully validated." To be specific they sound like the kinds of astronomical conclusions one might draw from studying the heavens through a small portable telescope. We may never be able to reconstruct the exact route by which the Dogon received their current knowledge, but out of the confusion at least one thing is clear: Sagan, 6, "White It is also the home of the brightest star in the night sky, Sirius A. On top of that, there is another star, Sirius B, orbiting at an average distance of about 20 AU (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and Sun). | 3938 State St., Suite # 101, Santa Barbara, CA, 93105-3114 | 1-805-576-9396. So where does this leave the mysteries of Sirius? [15] An apparent "third star" observed in the 1920s is now confirmed as a background object,[16] something previously suggested by Holberg in 2007: Benest and Duvent found that stable orbits with a period of up to six years exist around Sirius A. Ogotemmeli: An Introduction to Dogon Religious For Siwa, I called Dr. Farouk EI-Baz of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, and his maps showed it at 25.50 degE, 29.22 degN (that's the oasis center, with the modern town about ten kilometers SE). The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe.
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