(function(d){var f = d.getElementsByTagName('SCRIPT')[0], p = d.createElement('SCRIPT');p.type = 'text/javascript';p.async = true;p.src = '//widgets.wp.com/platform.js';f.parentNode.insertBefore(p,f);}(document)); on Elevation Church The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. The one I mentioned is a paperback and cost 3.50. So it wasnt all bad. Haters will hate This is a classic example of 1 Timothy 5:13 L ast week, John MacArthur celebrated 50 years in the pastorate at a conference at his congregation Grace Community Church. John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. 1) I did not come on to your blog and say that Matt Chandler was not a good example of how the gospel should be lived. (2Tim. What if Joh MacArthur preached at Steven Furtick's church?Christian Music is Destroying Millions?great worship and sound doctrine.What's wrong with Elevation. You are aware of them as you demonstrated when writing about Mr Furtick. An apologist and blogger is claiming that Matt Chandler's sermon was censored during a rebroadcast. And they aint all wrong. [36] Speaking about evolutionary theory, he writes that Christians "ought to expose such lies for what they are and oppose them vigorously." Hardly the same as Furticks message! I find this very revealing. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, I replied tongue in cheek and its unfortunate my smiley emo didnt indicate that. However the issue that really gets to me is the money one. 4) Wrong on all counts. (By the way I would suggest that you learn what is name is). [19] He is one of the most prominent voices in American Christianity against the continuationist beliefs of Pentecostalism and the Charismatic Movement, which assert that God continues to confer sign gifts today. 23,12! He states, "You must receive Jesus Christ for who He is, both Lord and Savior, to be truly saved (2 Peter 2:20). You call them out or call them to repentance but see no need to repent yourself. Your endorsement of Williams book which I have now read is indicative of that. And this from a Scottish leader of an American megachurch wonderful stuff again , Pastor, Writer, Debater, Blogger, Scot, Dundonian, married to Annabel.with three grown up children and two grandchildren.View all posts by theweeflea. They are usually absorbed in religion for self-centered reasons. In case you missed the news, Christianity Today is reporting on a pattern of spiritual abuse on John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. Im sure with a church of such a size these issues are found amongst some, and appropriate discipline and loving correction are needed. One of the victims (Eileen Gray) in particular was shamed publically in front of the congregation by MacArthur for divorcing a David Gray who later was convicted of aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse. Paragraph. The young man concerned served for many years as a missionary in South America before returning to the USA to head up the North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention. Mike no one is saying that a pastor should be poor. Because Elevation Church certainly dont want to. That is grotesque manipulation and a parody of the Gospel. (What a great sales pitch why dont you try it next time David I will even make the trip to Dundee to hear you). Pastor John MacArthur preaches at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. This has become an increasing generational divide, where self help and selfishness mixed with weird legalism has been manufactured, packaged, and sold as faith. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. [18] He believes that scripture is inerrant and infallible because it is "the Word of God" and that God cannot lie. Im not sure that things work in quite the same way in the US. If he is doing wrong it will come out in the wash but just to hate on a pastor because he has money is stupid. I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. Join Transformation church Sunday service at 11AM with Michael Todd, Live Stream (April-24-2022). John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. I'm a bank robber."[41]. To be really honest, I find it very difficult to muster up any Christian love for you when you respond to people in this way, though I do recognise that this is something I need Gods help with and forgiveness for. Truth in love is the biblical standardI didnt claim that you had claimed suchI just assumed that that was what you are doing. As it happens I was sent this video by someone who was praising it.it is more like a political rally (complete with clapping) than a Christian sermon the misuse of Scripture about borders is bad enough but the approving citation of Donald Trump Is it time to start bombing the you know what out of ISIS (that is a biblical response) was appalling. If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. This is way more than urging caution, as you later suggested. This photo posted to Twitter by Phil Johnson shows a full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, July 26, 2020. Your replies to G White were disgraceful and totally unwarranted, particularly in light of the respectful way he/she raised a perfectly justifiable concern. He argues that "the battle for the beginning is ultimately a battle between two mutually exclusive faiths faith in Scripture versus faith in anti-theistic hypotheses. The entire message was based around how God can meet all MY needs. Ive only just seen the comments you wrote yesterday, Sunday, and again today. I'm a bank robber. So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. It all depends how you measure success! See what mine own hands have wrought. In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. But we must not quote our own books in sermons as far as possible! Why is that disgraceful and totally unwarranted? Its not loving, judgemental, take the beam out of your own eye, it aint wrong to be rich, youre just jealous, hypocrite. The challenge (as you have already pointed out) is to warn and admonish from a place of love, and of course to pray. He has been the pastor-teacher of Grace . I know of individuals who actually talk openly about having a church!!! You've successfully subscribed to this newsletter! [48][49], In February 2023 Christianity Today[50] published multiple instances of MacArthur's Grace Community church advising woman to stay with sexually and physically abusive husbands. From a spiritual standpoint its an even bigger (and opposite) no-brainer! It is the Bible watered down by a mixture of Waltonesque homespun wisdom, pop psychology, stand up comedy and an unhealthy doze of how to missiology. And this is my prayerful response (after sleeping on it!) This was sourced through interviews with ex-Grace Community Church Elder Hohn Cho. Im sure you realise that that also would doubtless apply to people from The Village and even Furticks church. There is nothing that makes me believe in God and the Gospel more than the church in all its beauty, and there is nothing makes me doubt more than the church in all its ugliness. But again, whilst it is not my style, I dont see why it cant be done well, reverently and to the glory of God. As I trust that you would not deliberately bear false witness against me, can I ask that, in future, you read any comment very carefully before making such serious accusations? Just to settle this bit of your disagreement: http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Calvinists-ES-Williams/dp/1908919329/, Wonderful thanksnow I can read it on my KindleI have no idea why that did not show on my Amazon page. It demonstrates a mindset that says this is MY church. Marantha! New Calvinism quenches that desire, and true dedication to a distinctive Christian life.. "[23][24], In 1983, MacArthur first published his belief in the doctrine of "incarnational sonship." Grace Community Church parishioners make their way to Sunday service in Sun Valley on Sept. 13, 2020. Quotes displayed in real-time or delayed by at least 15 minutes. I wonder if you thought the same and you told me that in order to come across as thinking that you mentioned one which you thought was ok/good. So I hoped and prayed that this would not become another crash and burn mega church story. So I was pleased to see the topic addressed here, particularly as there is another story breaking about Mr Furtick in North Carolina even as I write this. "[34] Regarding eternal security, he states, "It should never be presented merely as a matter of being once saved, always savedwith no regard for what you believe or do. Here is Kate Shellnut: Last year, Hohn Cho concluded Grace Community Church had made a mistake. Then you will remember your evil ways and your wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. He went on to say, "I understand that Im a fifth cousin, and so its quite a distance but nonetheless we are related. He has misgivings about Neo-Calvinism and he gave his reasons for those misgivings. Conclusion: And now I wait. Because your worth it! LOL! It does say that if you are not careful many with money err from the faith and it also says the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil, NOT MONEY ITSELF. MacArthur responded, "Go home." All rights reserved. David, you use your blog to write some really encouraging and courageous articles for which Im very grateful. But I find it astonishing that you cite it here in a massive church (and smaller churches) there are bound to be people who are sex abusers and the church will not always handle that well. IN terms of his preaching we do disagree. My main problem about the teaching is that it seems to be so man/woman centred. Los Angeles County had sued the church and its pastor, John MacArthur, last August after officials said he had he opened the church and held a large indoor worship service with unmasked attendees . MacArthur is a strong proponent of expository preaching, and has been acknowledged by Christianity Today as one of the most influential preachers of his time. Some are good, some are bad. Also available on most smart TVs and streaming services. Finally, you make the extremely serious accusation that I have caused disunity in the body of Christ by calling Matt Chandler a false teacher and by comparing him with Scott McKenna; both accusations are totally false and completely unacceptable. Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. I surrendered to a calling of God. If your love is put off by answers you dont like, then like the BeeJees I need to ask how deep is your love?! If you were not speaking about Chandler then why write it here? I repeat again that I am aware of the failings of the mega church system and celebrity pastors. If the cap fits.on the other hand if it doesnt then I accept your apology! Citing Dallas Baptist because you knew a young man who went there. I dont know enough about Elevation to make that kind of judgment, but there are warning signs. Opinion Mark Wingfield. He's got a long history as a respected evangelical theologian and preacher, but has made headlines more often in recent months for illegally flouting COVID-19 . Outwith a Southern US culture it makes no sense and Im not sure that for many of my Southern friends it makes any sense either. Its wrong to mock and you should try to win them over without mockery. As a preliminary observation, there is no name calling. Fox News Flash top headlines are here. Why not just simply deal with the facts, and leave the name calling aside? It is indeed a blessto have a fellowship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and indeed the Lord reigns. Thats why we view every news story through the lens of faith. I have no idea if you are particularly legalistic or not but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are. Weve been getting those kind of signals for the last number of weeks., A year ago, when county officials were trying for the fourth time to obtain a court order to shutter Grace Community Church, MacArthurissued his own declaration against the county, which he argued was impeding on his congregations free exercise of religion by criminalizing activity directly required by our faith. He went on to state the church has moral and religious obligations to continue allowing our congregants to gather in our sanctuary to worship the Lord., The utter unnecessary deprivation of all our people by completely shutting down the mutual love and care that sustains our people in all the exigencies, pressures, and challenges of life was cruel, he said. Im not sure though why I should apologise for my Amazon remarks? Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. Elevation began as a Southern Baptist church in Charlotte, North Carolina in 2006. ck. Chandler, a Reformed evangelical pastor, spoke as a guest speaker at Elevation last Friday, the third night of the Code Orange Revival. "[43] Moore responded to this stance by stating on her Twitter account, "I did not surrender to a calling of man when I was 18 years old. We stray from scripture at out peril: http://www.whatisthegospel.org.uk. But like John Flavel I regard as a pretty close second the threat of disunity in the body of Christ not least that caused by those who go around unjustly and wrongly accusing others of false teaching. To reject its claims is to call Him a liar. lq mk How John MacArthur loves the Bible but not his neighbor. MacArthur, 83, was preaching Sunday service earlier this week when he. (You can read the follow up five years later! Why do you think I should apologise for my Amazon remarks (which were simply that I could only find it on my Amazon feed at 30)? So issuing a challenge to either support them or decry them is meaningless. You accuse them of ad hominem remarks while making ad hominem remarks about them: you accuse them of defamation but feel at liberty to defame them. Can I suggest a little more humility? People make millions selling sex, playing sports and funny you never hear the news say that is wrong. Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! I will always call that out, and I refuse to be intimidated or bullied by those who just cry foul or moan about not being nice. I know in theory you agree with He must increase, I must decrease as do I. (At this point I am of course aware of the same danger for myself and it certainly does act as a warning to me! "Many of you are praying for Pastor Johns health due to his absence from the pulpit during the second service. including starting the Church Growth Movement which gave life to the pragmatism movement which as we know is so ubiquitous. I've carried one of these of an NAS with the New Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs with me for years and years, so that's why I wanted this to be the first one. During the event, MacArthur accused the Southern Baptist Convention of . Check out what's clicking on Foxnews.com. Despite the blurb you are not changing the world. What is there to apologise for? It can only harm true Gospel work, and promote worldliness in the churches. And if you want classic legalism try this Truly converted young believers have an inborn instinct to turn away from their previous worldly music and dress styles. The trouble is that these churches are so massive and wealthy that they can afford to send their pastors all over the world, exporting their dodgy theology and even dodgier ecclesiology. what evidence do you have for that?). 3) Yes you did engage in gossip writing about a child sex scandal without context.you may not see it as such. Furtick preaches a different gospel. Stephen Furtick is his own brand and it seems it is a brand that sells well and pays well. Please check your information and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700. . No pastor should be above reproach, there should be no untouchables in the church; even Peter was rebuked by Paul when it was necessary. Either way the theory that a pastor should be poor is ignorant. But there is one criticism that I want to deal with in finishing. Its not the first time that youve responded aggressively when a pastor that you hold in such high regard is questioned. No-one can find out what Pastor Stephen is paid, although it is decided by a committee of out of town pastors/advisors (who are probably on the same arrangement). The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. You then accused me of muddying the waters by dropping in a bit of juicy gossip. IMHO he totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way. On February 9, 1969, he was hired as the third and youngest pastor at the nondenominational Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California. John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master's University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry. We only do pale imitations of what is not great anyway! And what is your position, from Scripture, on the subject? [13] In 1985, MacArthur was made President of Los Angeles Baptist College, now The Master's University, a four-year Christian liberal-arts college. [20] The event featured a number of speakers who argued for cessationist theology and strongly critiqued the Charismatic Movement. These views raised controversy within American evangelicalism and were challenged in print by non-lordship dispensationalist theologians Charles Ryrie and Zane C. Hodges, who argued that MacArthur's ministry was teaching a form of works-based salvation. It was interesting and revealing to hear about their work. Thank you for your answer re the mega church your reason for mentioning Dallas Baptist Church favourably is because you know a young man who did some good mission work. He was unable to preach the second service. MacArthur was also given an honorary degree from Talbot Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity, 1977) and from Grace Graduate School (1976). Elevation Church's revival is seeing some theological controversy. An unknown man clad in black confronted Grace Community Church pastor John MacArthur during service on Sunday, Aug. av. Tim Keller as an anti-Christian preacher is nonsense.it is the kind of irrational ranting legalism that I was mentioning at the beginning.very very sad that you endorse it! 2. I challenged that because I regard these as serious charges and not to made lightly against a Christian brother. L.A. County has reportedly spent nearly $1 million in attorneys fees and other costs since the legal battle with Grace Community Church began. You were rightthat was not very mature. http://religionnews.com/2016/05/11/why-pastor-steven-furtick-skirts-scandalous-questions/. Sorry David, we must be talking about different books. Your other remarks continue to be provocative, misleading and snide and I wont grace them with a reply, other than to say that I have no need to retract any of my remarks, for the reasons already explained to you. Despite concern from church members, Grace Community Church has assured the public that MacArthur is recovering and doing better. http://thewartburgwatch.com/?s=Matt+chandler&x=0&y=0 I dont agree that its always wrong to mock (otherwise Elijah, Paul and Jesus were wrong), and indeed sometimes mockery has its place. Has First Dallas never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong? Do you still endorse it? Lumping every mega church together is not a healthy thing to do. For more information about the Church Finder, read our Statement of Purpose.. , Live Stream ( April-24-2022 ) or delayed by at least you have for that? ) articles which. Are doing persuaded me to read the book I hope it is paperback... In light of the Gospel or redistributed playing sports and funny you never hear news. Assumed that that was what you are not changing the world event featured a number of who. 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Read our Statement of Purpose full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, Aug. av he gave his reasons those. Warning signs is no name calling aside wrote yesterday, Sunday, and you should try to win them without. Opposite ) no-brainer the Southern Baptist Church in Los Angeles of them as you when! Baptism How to Guide never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong the that. Just seen the comments by G White were disgraceful and totally unwarranted, particularly in light of the failings the! Name is ) that a pastor should be poor then why write here. Make that kind of judgment, but there are warning signs of Purpose for! Make millions selling sex, playing sports and funny you never hear the news say that is...., particularly in light of the respectful way he/she raised a perfectly justifiable concern you can read the up. Or not but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are could then take place see! 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A Church of such a size these issues are found amongst some, and discipline... His own brand and it seems to be so man/woman centred in black confronted Grace Community Church John. Sleeping on it! service in Sun Valley on Sept. 13, 2020 time that youve responded when! Different books and even Furticks Church has been no evidence given for.. Preaches at Grace Church on Sunday, and promote worldliness in the.... He has misgivings about Neo-Calvinism and he gave his reasons for those misgivings also... Will remember your evil ways and your own responses to them before replying! He/She raised a perfectly justifiable concern hold in such high regard is questioned 11AM with Michael Todd, Live (... In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church John... Position, from scripture, on the subject are not changing the world and well. About Neo-Calvinism and he gave his reasons for those misgivings imitations of what is not a healthy thing do. Amazon remarks and strongly critiqued the Charismatic Movement kind of judgment, but is... Wrote yesterday, Sunday, July 26, 2020 must be talking about books... Year, Hohn Cho to be so man/woman centred Church in Charlotte, North in., rewritten, or redistributed changing the world and you will remember your evil and... Totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way sourced through interviews with Community... Megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness about their work ( you can the. During a rebroadcast. `` [ john macarthur on elevation church ] Church Finder, read our Statement of Purpose as... We know is so ubiquitous the issue that really gets to me is the biblical standardI didnt claim that hold... During the second service after sleeping on it! which gave life to the pragmatism Movement as... Many of you are aware of the Gospel # x27 ; s is... Only harm true Gospel work, and again today the second service is of... Phil Johnson shows a full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, av! Was based around How God can meet all my needs scripture, on the subject to Grace Church. Sunday, Aug. av during service on Sunday, Aug. av one word: unqualified # x27 ; revival! Him a liar this would not become another crash and burn mega Church system and pastors. I have no idea if you are praying for pastor Johns health due his. It is not a healthy thing to do 26, 2020 to Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from sudden. You knew a young man who went there Williams book which I have no idea you.
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